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Encore barrel movement Login/Join 



posted
Hi everyone, I have an encore, trying to work up a load for my 300 win mag barrel. Having trouble, tried different bullet, powder combos with no luck. Found that my barrel has side to side movement in the frame. Anyone experiencing this? Any solution?
Thank you in advance for your time
 
Posts: 5 | Location: Saint Louis Missouri | Registered: January 25, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Picture of sisko
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You need to get a Bellm oversized hinge pin. I have one in all my Encore and Contender frames.

1x Hinge Pin


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Posts: 92 | Location: Maryville, TN | Registered: July 01, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Are you getting the side to side movement when the action is closed or when open? If it is when closed, my experience has been that it is more of a geometry issue with that particular barrel and frame combo. When I put a barrel with some movement on another frame, it has often locked up like a vault. I have each barrel paired with a certain frame just for that reason. I use the Belllm pins in a few cases where there is more movement when open than I like but, for me, that hasn’t always solved the lockup problem by itself but they can be an important part.
 
Posts: 1238 | Location: Vancouver, WA | Registered: June 11, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



121720



Picture of HotRodAl
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You need to think twice before driving an oversize pin through that frame, I personally know of one instance of cracking the lug on a barrel when an oversize pin was driven through it, and it was not mine. That oversize pin has been debated to death and its not the answer to all your problems. I've been shooting Contenders since 1979 and Encores since they where introduced that's over 40 years and I will be the first to say I'm still not an expert in either but I've experienced a lot of issues with them over those years.

Is that barrel moving when its locked up? Just about all barrels will have some side to side movement when open. I have a 15" 300 Win mag barrel rechambered by SSK several years ago, until I got the right combo of bullet/powder and seating depth it wouldn't shoot better than 2+inches at 50 yards but once I hit the right combo it will do better than 1 inch at 100 yards, Mr KYODE here on SP witnessed it.

I had another barrel that no matter what I did it wouldn't shoot better than about 2 1/2" at 100 yards, I eventually done a chamber cast and found the problem the chamber was not parrell with the bore.

I'm not saying that is your problem but you might want to take a look at it.

Mr Bellm has done a lot for Contender/Encore shooters, do you know where he got most of his information from, years back he had a web page and he had people to share their problems they where having and had others experimenting so he could
get the information.

This is my personal opinion only and has nothing to do with Specialty Pistols and will apologize before hand if I offend anyone here on SP but in my personal opinion the biggest mistake Bellm has made is introducing the oversize hinge pin, it is not the cure all for Contender/Encore shooters.

Sorry I'll get off my high horse now.


Albert
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Life Member NRA
Navy Submarine Veteran
 
Posts: 10362 | Location: Kenova, WV, USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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HotRodAl, thanks for that post. I have the Contender in 357 Max, correspondence, and original printings of the journal Mr. Bellm put out and our (mine and my grandfather's) experience there mirrors yours. Unfortunately his frame was reamed for a larger Bellm pin, so for normal tight lockup you'd need to ream every barrel lug. This for a Bellm made barrel that even after two trips back to him is still a 4 MOA gun. In contrast my Bullberry 357 Max barrel printed a 0.6 inch 100 yard group with 180XTPs it's last outing. The oversized pin was a mistake.

As primarily a revolver shooter, the fact that a good revolver is 2-4 MOA with rotating chambers and so many moving parts, I struggle to believe that a fixed barrel with fixed chamber to bore alignment is much effected by what is probably pretty consistent positioning of the breech even with loose pin fit.
 
Posts: 47 | Location: TX | Registered: September 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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A Contender shooting 4 MOA has bigger problems than a "loose" pin.

The oversize pins are a slip in fit in some frame/barrel combos so you don't always need to drive them in with a hammer. EABCO has an Encore screw locking pin. I have one but can't really tell that it makes much difference.
 
Posts: 1547 | Location: Missouri | Registered: December 09, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Picture of LoneStar
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We really need more information from the OP to be able to intelligently diagnose his problem.

First, what is his problem? Accuracy? Reliable ignition? What?

What type of rest is he using? Scope or irons?

What data is he using? Powders? Charges? We don’t know.

A .300 WM Encore has a lot of recoil for a newer shooter, can he shoot the barrel accurately? Has anyone else fired the pistol?

Without this info any answer is just a WAG.


.
 
Posts: 782 | Location: Valley of the Sun | Registered: August 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post






Picture of Magnum Mike
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I'll second Al's comments regarding oversize hinge pins. I've been shooting contenders since I turned 21, encores since they were introduced. In all the years, and all the barrels and frames, I've never had a single one that wouldn't shoot acceptable accuracy with load development. That said, shooting heavy recoiling calibers can be very challenging. My 16" 405 Winchester was one of the most difficult too shoot well and obtain good accuracy. Once I had a OTT brake added, it was much easier to shoot accurately. I also found the load i had settled on was a lot more accurate.

If your not accustom to shooting a handgun with the boat and recoil of your 300 win mag, don't get discouraged, it does take some getting used to. You also might consider adding a break, they really can help.


mike
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Posts: 19274 | Location: western PA, USA! | Registered: October 30, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post





Picture of KYODE
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Id try some H1000 powder.....and do the muzzle brake. Only way id do an oversize pin, is if it would still slip fit without driving with a hammer lol.


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Posts: 9253 | Location: Northeast Ky. | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Thanks everyone for the info.
When locked up, I get side to side movement with my 300 mag barrel and my 30-06 barrel. Tried the hinge pin out of my pistol and still get movement with both barrels. The pistol pin fit a little tighter than the one from rifle.
I have tried the following powder bullet combos, 200 grain Nosler partitions with H4831,H1000,RL22.
Also tried some Hornady 180 GMX bullets. Getting 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards no matter what I tried.
Thanks
 
Posts: 5 | Location: Saint Louis Missouri | Registered: January 25, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post



121720



Picture of HotRodAl
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quote:
I have tried the following powder bullet combos, 200 grain Nosler partitions with H4831,H1000,RL22.Also tried some Hornady 180 GMX bullets. Getting 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards no matter what I tried.

Try some 165 Nosler B-tips and H4831, that is the combo that really works in mine.


Albert
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Life Member NRA
Navy Submarine Veteran
 
Posts: 10362 | Location: Kenova, WV, USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post





Picture of KYODE
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Trying a different bullet may help some. Im sure those are nice quality bullets and would be good on short range game, even at that accuracy level. Id think a standard 150-180gr sp bullet would take down a pretty big beast. Yrs ago my 300 liked the sierra 180gr flat base sp better than the boattail.
Also imo it be best to not push the magnum case head to maximum high pressure loads in the encore. Look for mid range data and find a more accurate bullet.
Just ideas for you to look at. Im no expert. I know things like this can be frustrating. You may be able to fix this without buying add ons if you are open minded and determined.


------------------------
~Kentucky....there is no place i'd rather be~

Join the NRA
 
Posts: 9253 | Location: Northeast Ky. | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Good evening. Thank you all who replied. I am sending the whole rifle to TC to have them look at it.
Will up post once I know something.
 
Posts: 5 | Location: Saint Louis Missouri | Registered: January 25, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Update-
Got my encore back from TC. They did not address the problem. Barrel side to side movement.
Had on work order, will not open or difficult to open close. Don’t know where that came from. I even had sent a letter with rifle stating the problem. It did say frame Hinge pin hole to specs.
I had purchased a Belman over size Hinge pin (1X) and it slips into frame and barrel hole easily. Still have barrel movement. I’m done! Will keep frame for muzzle load barrel. Going to sell all my encore barrels.
Thanks for all the responses. Enjoy all the info here at Specailty pistols.
 
Posts: 5 | Location: Saint Louis Missouri | Registered: January 25, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Someone does or did make an adjustable hinge pin, my nephew has one for his wife's 300 Win mag. He said it took all the movement out of her rig.
 
Posts: 170 | Location: West Virginia | Registered: January 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
I had purchased a Belman over size Hinge pin (1X) and it slips into frame and barrel hole easily. Still have barrel movement.



WOW! Surprised 1X didn’t tighten it up.
 
Posts: 1904 | Location: Ohio | Registered: November 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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