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posted
Hey guys,
This may be old news, but I just found this on Hodgdon.com. They have finally published a safe method of creating really reduced loads using Trail Boss in just about everything.

This may give new life to some of those barrels that I have neglected for so long.

Here's the link. It's a pdf.

Trail Boss Data

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Alpo,


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Posts: 338 | Location: Cumming, GA | Registered: November 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Picture of feets
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That's almost disturbing. Just scoop a case full of powder and plop a bullet on top.
I use TB on a regular basis but that idea makes me a wee bit uncomfortable.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by feets:
That's almost disturbing. Just scoop a case full of powder and plop a bullet on top.
I use TB on a regular basis but that idea makes me a wee bit uncomfortable.

CASE FULL ??? What I read was determine 100% loading density, ie; a NON COMPRESSED case full, weight and start at 70% of that.
Hodgon is off to a good start in listing loading data, and hopefully they will get around to testing and listing data for the rounds we shoot,ie; 6.5 & 7 TCU, 6,6.5,7&30 BR, ect.ect.


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IHMSA # 566, Time sure flys when you're having fun
 
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Yes old news, since the very begining that the powder was introduced they said it could be used in about any cartridge by following the 3 step process as described in the report. I have used it in every round I reload for at one time or another and never had a problem, From 22 hornet all the way up to the 500 S&W with 700gr bullets.
 
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Picture of Magnum Mike
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Cool! I like that they are now telling you that you can use this powder with jacketed bullets now!

Its good that they continue to develop their existing line of powder...


mike
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Picture of feets
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quote:
Originally posted by Wayne S:
quote:
Originally posted by feets:
That's almost disturbing. Just scoop a case full of powder and plop a bullet on top.
I use TB on a regular basis but that idea makes me a wee bit uncomfortable.

CASE FULL ??? What I read was determine 100% loading density, ie; a NON COMPRESSED case full, weight and start at 70% of that.
Hodgon is off to a good start in listing loading data, and hopefully they will get around to testing and listing data for the rounds we shoot,ie; 6.5 & 7 TCU, 6,6.5,7&30 BR, ect.ect.


I understand what it's saying. That just seems like a careless way to do things.
There is something interesting about TB. It's pressures vary greatly by volume. Compare the data listed for the 5 different 30 calibers. The powder charge varies greatly but the velocities aren't that much different.
 
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Picture of Mike-Sid
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I just filled my Pact powder dispencer with Trail Boss, hit the calibrate button and before it was done powder was overflowing the powder pan and spilling on the bench. I guess I need a bigger powder pan.



 
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike-Sid:
I just filled my Pact powder dispencer with Trail Boss, hit the calibrate button and before it was done powder was overflowing the powder pan and spilling on the bench. I guess I need a bigger powder pan.

Have too remember to not do that.


------------------------------
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Picture of Magnum Mike
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Yea, i tried to zero mine once and it didnt work. As i remember it, i dont think i even messed with it after that...

Gonna try some TB with 200swc's in my 45acp, soon. Wink

quote:
Originally posted by feets:
I understand what it's saying. That just seems like a careless way to do things.
There is something interesting about TB. It's pressures vary greatly by volume. Compare the data listed for the 5 different 30 calibers. The powder charge varies greatly but the velocities aren't that much different.
I dont agree. They are making this process about as uncomplicated as they can. Find the NON-compressed charge, reduce by 30% and work up, pretty simple.


mike
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Picture of rickyp
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I see that they list a load for the 223,

has anyone tried t.b. in the 223?

I have used it in my 454 and 45-70 encore pistols and have not found a accurate load for them.
 
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I burn a lot of Trail Boss in my large bore rifles/handguns. TB with a heavy cast bullet, as Hodgdon says is "pure fun". It makes even the heavy recoil cartridges easy to shoot, and that most likely leads to the excellent accuracy I have experienced. I load all of my TB using Lee powder dippers - they are quick and easy, and while I assume the charges are not benchrest consistent, I'm not shooting benchrest competition.

I started with 20 grains of TB in my HS Precision .416RM rifle, under a 400 grain cast bullet from Montana Bullet. The load chrono'ed at a bit over 1200fps, and groups at 100 yards are scary accurate. I carried this rifle/load for whitetail a couple of times this past season with full confidence to 125 yards, but no luck.

Recently I have shot my .375H&H Encore rifle with 20 grains of TB over a 300gr cast Montana Bullet. I didn't chrono these loads (it's winter and it's cold), but accuracy was again 1 to 1.5 inches at 100 yards.

Today, I ran some of the .375 300 grainers through my new to me .375JDJ Contender pistol using 14+ grains of TB. Again accuracy was great; recoil, while brisk, was not abusive (and no where near full house .375JDJ loads).

There was an article in the Hodgdon's yearly reloading manual a few years ago about Trail Boss. IIRC, the author surmised that it would be nearly impossible to create an over-pressure situation using TB, due to it's bulk (although it IS a fast burning powder).

Todd
 
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by rickyp:
I see that they list a load for the 223,

has anyone tried t.b. in the 223?

I have used it in my 454 and 45-70 encore pistols and have not found a accurate load for them.


I have Ricky. I will say this, with the smaller calibers, pushing them faster with TB seems to tighten the groups up alot (1200+ FPS), but with the large bores 357 on up to 50 cal the least amount of powder you can get away with seems to produce the best accuracy I have found. For example: I shoot a Encore 15" Tube 500 S&W with a 700gr T-Rex with only 5-7gr of TB. Its maybe goin 500-650fps fps but it sure hits with a whalop, and it is super accurate within 100 yards, Im talkin 1.5" groups or less. Plus you can shoot the thing all day long. Feels like your shootin a tater cannon.devil As for the jacked bullet thing, NA, Im gonna stick with cast. I tried jacked with TB and the pressure increases a WHOLE bunch, plus I did get a few stuck in the barrelhammer. For me TB and cast is the only way to go. Far as the 223, Unless you lookin for a real reduced load for the 223 then dont bother, you can get pretty subsonic with H4198 and you will not risk any "Detonation" problems with it either (I called and talked to Hodgdons first) before I started messing with 4198 and they assured me it was one of the only powders that was safe and impossible to get detonation with using way reduced loads. Its much cleaner burning then TB and no blowback around the cases.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: **BIG RYAN**,
 
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Picture of rickyp
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I have like 3 cans of the TB.
in the 45-70 I am using 405 gr cast bullets and the 454 i am using 300 gr cast bullets. I am able to get them down to a very easy to shoot level.

I took my 9 year old to the range and gave him a few rounds of the 15" encore 45-70 and let him pop them off. he loved it. one time I saw a guy watching him load the 45-70 in the barrel and stand back when my son fired it and the look of surprise when my son handled the big round like it was a 22. I then asked him if he would like to try it and he did. I gave this guy a high up trap door load. the look on his face when he touched it off was just to funny. he put the encore back down and walked away.
 
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I have a Redding profile crimping die for the .45-70. If I was shooting jacketed bullets in an Encore 15" .45-70, do you think better groups could be had by using a good crimp? I do have 4198, but 39.4gr is the lowest Sierra lists for their 300-grain .45-70 bullet. Is the concensus here that you can go even lower, like 35gr, with 4198 without problems?

Regarding the 445SM, I know Doom has been downloading it with Trail Boss. Does this stuff meter very well, or will some accuracy be left on the table when comparing to other powder options.

The thing I like about TB (just from reading about it since I haven't bought any yet) is that it makes it easier to shoot big cartridges from a handgun and really boosts the confidence and fun without suffering or needing a muzzle brake. I mean, who doesn't love sliding a big .45-70 into the chamber of a T/C just before pulling the hammer back and lettin' one go? It sounds like TB makes it possible all day long without a sore hand.
 
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Picture of Duffy
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When I was messing around with it in the Hornet with a 55g cast I pretty much ended up with a 98% full case being the most accurate. Really works good in the Hornet and has more punch than a 22 mag. Would like to get a 45g flat nosed mold for some smackum fun. Big Grin


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Anyone try TB in a 30 Herrett ??, I checked a case and it looks like about 10.5 gn. fills it to lust below the base of the neck


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Picture of feets
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I ran 12.5 grains of TB under 250 LSWC in my 15" braked 460. It gave me a little over 1250 fps. Recoil was non-existant. It didn't even have the oomph to lift the barrel off the rest. The gun wiggled and smoke rolled out the end.
Unfortunately, I was shooting for the chrony, not for accuracy.
 
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I put 8 grains in teh 460 with 185 grain plated bullets with good results

 
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Anybody have thoughts on whether it creates enough pressure and/or is it safe to use as a fireform load for .375jdj, etc?


CPT Jarod Hanson, DVM
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Picture of Magnum Mike
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It should! Never thot about that but it should be great for fireforming!!


mike
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This morning I shot TrailBoss through my .375 Ruger Hawkeye rifle for the first time.



"Big" bores with cast bullets are fun.

Todd

BTW - also shot my .375JDJ with the same bullet out of "new" brass, 14.5 grains of TrailBoss - nice sharp shoulders
 
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Picture of Magnum Mike
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Thats impressive Todd.

I am using it in my 200swc grain 45acp Bullseye load. Shoots great with lighter recoil.


mike
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Picture of rickyp
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I was thinking tonight, Scarry

what about using Trail boss in a 9MM?
 
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Picture of Magnum Mike
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Looking at RIFLE load data this am for 223 and found on Hodgdons site a 55 FMJ load that runs 1074 fps from a 24" barrel with 4.0 grains of Trail Boss. Talk about versatility! That makes the 223 a viable small game getter equal to a reloadable 22LR, assuming the accuracy is there. I have never checked the case capacity of a 223 with Trail Boss but would imagine that you could get more than that in that case. If so, it would be able to be loaded to 22Mag velocities too.

I imagine they are recommending a FMJ for fear that a jacket might stick in the bore and squirt the core or just the simple fact that most centerfire bullets will have zero expansion at that velocity. I would also think a bonded bullet would be a non-issue.

The more i read/use this powder, the more i like it!


mike
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Posts: 19249 | Location: western PA, USA! | Registered: October 30, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Picture of feets
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You can use Trail Boss in 9mm but don't go crazy. It has a fairly fast burn rate and can easily over pressure the 9mm case.

I've used it quite a bit in my 45 ACP.
 
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Picture of rickyp
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I was just going to fill a case up to about where the bullets base seats and weigh the charge and maybe drop it by 10%.
 
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Picture of OneGoodShot
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I purchased a AR15 Spikes Tactical piston upper last week and tried it out with a suppressor 55gr Hornadys and Clays to make some subsonic loads. With the piston in the open position, it sounded like an air gun. With the piston off, it was REALLY quiet. I loaded up some more Clays, but I'm going to try trail boss and some 63 gr green tip (penetrator) as I believe I need more weight in order to get subsonic with the trail boss. Then I'll play with different barrel twists to see what gives pill stability.
Maybe I'll get a video posted, but I still havent posted the video of me shooting the sako pistol that I took before Christmas, so dont hold your breath.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: OneGoodShot,


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Anyone try this in a 44 mag? I would be interested in hearing the results.


NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
 
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Picture of onemancoyote
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I'll be building a 44 mag load very soon. Just did some work up on a 357 mag load and boy is this stuff fun. At 50 yds my POI was almost the same as my full power loads. 158gr lead SW at 800+/- fps. weeeeeee!
 
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I would like to try this in a 45 Colt download. Does anyone know what the case capacity is with a 255 grain Keith style bullet?? I would like to set up a "Gallery Load" with TB. But I do not know if I can load it that slow?? Right now I am using Red Dot. Thanks, Tom.


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I have used Trail Boss in calibers from 223 to 458 Lott and the 470 Capstick
This powder has worked great in everything by just filling the case to where the bottom of the bullet is on a seated round. Ross


 
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quote:
Originally posted by HOGGHEAD:
I would like to try this in a 45 Colt download. Does anyone know what the case capacity is with a 255 grain Keith style bullet?? I would like to set up a "Gallery Load" with TB. But I do not know if I can load it that slow?? Right now I am using Red Dot. Thanks, Tom.


I know you asked about a 255 grainer in the 45LC, but I use Trail Boss with the 45-270-SAA that weighs in at around 283 grains…

To the base of that boolit is 8.0 grains of Trail Boss. I suspect your maximum charge might be a bit greater. You will just need to do the measurements and see…

But, with the 45-270-SAA I get 737 fps with 6.0 grains of Trail Boss and 825 fps with the 8.0 grain load. The other charges fall in-between…

So, depending on what your definition of a “Gallery” load is, there are a few numbers to work with…

Do those velocities fall in the Gallery Load category?...

I love Trail Boss, but Red Dot that you use will probably be less expensive. But no chance of a double charge with Trail Boss—one must decide…

Good-luck…BCB
 
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Picture of JoeR
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Anyone tried it in a 357 Max yet? If so, with what bullet weight?

JR
 
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Picture of JoeR
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I'll answer my own question. Trail Boss in the 357 Max measured out at approximately 8.4 grains at 100% at the base of the bullet. So 5.8 gr should be right at 70%. I split the diff with 7.2 gr under 158 Laser Casts. Shot very well, accurate and easy on the hand.

So Trail Boss has use in another caliber I reload for. Full house Max loads are not fun to shoot 20-30 in a row and heat up the barrel pretty good. The Trail Boss loads don't seem to heat up the barrel at all. Warm at best to the touch.

So that makes Trail Boss good for me in 38, 357 Mag, 357 Max, 44 Mag, 45ACP, and a few rifle calibers also.

JR
 
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Where are you guys finding all the published load data for trail boss?

D00M
 
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Picture of Bobcat
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quote:
Originally posted by Alpo:

Here's the link. It's a pdf.

Trail Boss Data



Bob


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So a formula is the same as published load data...mmmmmmm

WOW!

I am not allowed to use formulas only hard and fast published data...

DooM
 
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Picture of HotRodAl
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quote:
I am not allowed to use formulas only hard and fast published data...

DooM

Doom if you would have read Alpos' thread you would have know that that data comes directly from Hodgdon Powder Company, the company that manufactures the powder and they have published it.

Would this have anything to do with the fact that Mike asked you to delete the data you provided in direct violation of SP POLICY? seems you are wanting to start an argument!!!!!


Albert
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Life Member NRA
 
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Picture of danf
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quote:
Originally posted by GIVER OF DOOM:
I am not allowed to use formulas only hard and fast published data...

DooM

ohboy ohboy ohboy ohboy


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posted Hide Post
Funny thing about this Trail Boss stuff—it causes controversy on every website that I have seen it discussed!!!

Some simply won’t use any reloading recipes unless they appear in a manual and they are “absolutely specific” as to boolits, primers, powder, OCL, etc, etc. Well, that is up to the individual, but there is some “leeway” in this reloading hobby…

I guess by pure definition, the 70% formula is published data. The only difference from it and manuals is the fact that the reloader does the math. And it is 6th or 7th grade math—you know fractions or percentages--maybe grade school math, I don't remember...

I have never even looked at a reloading manual when it comes to Trail Boss—the 70% formula is all I need and it has worked well and safely…

Yet there are some on other websites who will condemn you to hell for using the 70% formula. They sit in front of their computer using programs that predict the end of the world with a given charge of Trail Boss in my Ruger Blackhawk in 45LC. I read their warnings as the fired cases nicely and smoothly fall from the chambers of the cylinder with a slight finger tap on the ejector rod!

And so it goes…

BCB
 
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I find it hard to use formulas that require math, as in figuring out percentages...after I put a bullet in the case, I don't know how much space is left, nor 70% of that volume....that's why I have to use a book......

DooM
 
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Picture of onemancoyote
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get a rough estimate of how deep you want to seat the bullet. Fill the case up with trail boss to this point. pour it out into a scale. Record this number. lets say it's 10 gr. 10 x .07= 07. so use 7 grains.
 
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121720



Picture of HotRodAl
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by GIVER OF DOOM:
I find it hard to use formulas that require math, as in figuring out percentages...after I put a bullet in the case, I don't know how much space is left, nor 70% of that volume....that's why I have to use a book......

DooM


Then you just might want to give up reloading before you hurt yourself. thumbup


Albert
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Life Member NRA
 
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i totally agree.
check out "load from a disk" software.
calculates all that for you.
bullet seating dept, remaining case volume, bore capacity etc.
 
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Then you just might want to give up reloading before you hurt yourself.


Thought about that, but just increased my life insurance, and the wife bought me a new set of check weights for my scale....at least I think they are check weights. Look like little rocks to me with numbers painted on the side. Wife said they were custom check weights.....so I guess they are ok.....

DooM

I do have trouble with loading by volume. I know Lee has that system and reading about it makes sense....but....find it is so much more consistent to use a good scale. Look in a book that give me min. and max. loads and go from there.
 
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Picture of California Kowboy
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One of the reason I reload is to save money.

Three grains of Bullseye per case makes a one pound container go a long way.


************************

Way,way out West....
 
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quote:
lets say it's 10 gr. 10 x .07= 07. so use 7 grains.


Just noticed this info in the an above response. It should actually be.
10 x .7 = 7
The 7 grain start load was correct but to get 70% you multiply by .7 or .70 not .07

Bruce
 
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Picture of Gman
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Just loaded a batch of .44 Mag to try with 210 grain cast lead bullets. Shot them at the range yesterday. Used 6 grains of Trail Boss. Shot real well and recoil was practically non existent. Didn't chrono it.

Harry
 
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Wondering how fast TB powder burns? Will the powder be sufficiently burnt in a 6" 44 mag barrel with a heavy 330gr bullet? Or, would my TC Encore shorty be better served with Lil'Gun, W231, or HS6 powder.

It's prolly an impossible task, but I'm looking to keep the fireball to a minimum sized burn Smile
 
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Here's the up to date link to Hodgdon's Trial Boss guide....

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Tra...ed%20Loads%20R&P.pdf
 
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Don't think I'll be shooting a whole lot of Nosler Partitions at 1700 out of a 7 mag ...
 
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And for those of us that have QL, with the new update,
it has TB listed, no problem to find what case it will work in etc.

Tia,
Don


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Picture of tdoyka
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what i've used in tb...

30-40 krag with 165gr ranch dog 10.0-13.5gr
444 marlin with 200gr xtp 12.6-16.5gr
45-70 with 405gr cast fbfn 12-13.5gr
44 rem mag with 200gr xtp 5.6-7.2gr


“All that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combated, suppressed — only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly from the struggle.”
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Picture of Bobcat
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The old link seems to be broken. I just tried Trail Boss in a .30-30 AI 10" barrel with open sights, 10.0 TB and 130 grain cast boolits, what a hoot


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I think it better to do right, even if we suffer in so doing, than to incur the reproach of our consciences and posterity.
General Robert E. Lee
 
Posts: 1791 | Location: Missouri Ozarks | Registered: March 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Went back to the original post and corrected the link.


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Just smile and wave boys, smile and wave....Hi Hi Hi
 
Posts: 338 | Location: Cumming, GA | Registered: November 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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thanks alpo!!!

i'm gonna use trail boss in 265gr ranch dogs in 444 marlin and 44 rem mag. this out to be real fun!!! i'm also thinking 30-30 in 165gr ranch dog.


“All that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combated, suppressed — only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly from the struggle.”
― Nikola Tesla
 
Posts: 1597 | Location: windber, pa | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Picture of Magnum Wheel Man
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"this stuff is dangerous & shouldn't be used in anything"

he says, as he rolls his eyes Roll Eyes

I wish you guys would stop buying & experimenting with this stuff...

really I love it... & try to use it exclusively for CAS, but can't ever find it available peed


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In life... you either make dust, or eat dust...
 
Posts: 186 | Location: southern MN | Registered: April 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by Mike-Sid:
I just filled my Pact powder dispencer with Trail Boss, hit the calibrate button and before it was done powder was overflowing the powder pan and spilling on the bench. I guess I need a bigger powder pan.

Well my Hornady won't caliber with TB either best way I have found to measure it is with a black powder measures,I did the 70%thing for loading 45 colt works okay but I'm still not sure if it's consistent or not,best with out a crimp
 
Posts: 3 | Location: East Texas | Registered: September 12, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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