So I'm thinking about a semi auto 308, I know this is specialty pistols, but I also know there is a ton of knowledge here...
My first choice would probably be an FN Scar 17s,I got a great deal a while back on a Scar 16s (5.56/223) And love the gun, stupid accurate, easy disassembly and just handles well... my bank account says NO!
One option I'm looking at is the FN FNAR... one of the things I like about it is its piston driven not gas so it would run cleaner and cooler than a gas unit. And maybe I'm putting more stock in that than is nessesary. Also it (states) guaranteed accuracy of 1 moa, I'm looking for good to great accuracy but only necessary to maybe 200 yards or so. Problem with this gun is kind of complicated on the disassembly end of things.
Another thought is (obviously) an AR-10, here is where I start to get lost.. there are in the neighborhood of 14.6 billion combinations out there!!! I don't want to buy the wrong thing, I'm sure if I buy a name brand I'd be ok.
Not a big fan of the basic military looking units.. the longer handguards look better in my opinion, but again that's just looks right? I'm not one to add a bunch of gobbledygook to a gun, I like clean/simple/functional and on the lighter side.
Here is one I was looking at (just for reference).. I like the looks, and from the research I've done seems like a solid gun...oh... and it takes Magpul mags. Don't want a gun with oddball mags that are expensive and hard to find.(one problem with the FNAR above!)
This one : http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=535180437
That price is also in the range I'd like to be..although towards the high side.
Ahh..my intended use.. Targets, deer and pigs, in the woods, and some out in the open..max at 300yds, and most stuff under 150 yards but I don't want to leave out the possibility.
I know lots of people build their guns fron the ground up, but again I'm not that confident in my ability to do so, especially with so many component choices out there.
AND if there is a different choice out there I'm missing...I'm all ears.
I am going threw the same decisions with my AR 15 build! I did not realize how many options there are.
You could always get a M1A close to your price range. More old school and maybe a little heaver than the other options.
We're all travelers in this world. From the sweet grass to the packing house. Birth 'til death. We travel between the eternities. - Prentice Ritter, Broken Trail 2006
In a 308, I wouldn't buy anything less than a S&W M&P10. Daniel Defense has recently introduced their variant but I think retail on them is another 3 bills over the Smith.
The lesser DPMS models run in your price range but I don't know that they'll live up to your accuracy standard. $1k is the low end for a 7.62 AR.
The AR type rifles are probably more practical but I wouldn't swap my M1A for any of them. Since you want to stay inside 300 yards, I would recommend a Socom 16 or Scout with it's 18" barrel, either would make for a dandy rifle for your intended purposes and do it with character.
You never said if you intend to use irons or optics. If optics, the AR system is easier to mount a scope on than a M1A variant. However, if it was my money, I would go with a M1A type, or (and here's where I will ruffle feathers) my favorite, the FAL. BUT I prefer irons for deer and hog size targets at the ranges you were talking about with a rifle, and don't like a scope on top of either of these two rifles.
Mike I understand the $1k is on the low end for the 308, but it is what I have to play with. Not sure how big a fan I am of S&W, they don't seem to be what they used to be, but maybe I'm wrong on that.
And lonegun, with these old eyes the gun will be with optics on it.
And no thoughts on a gas system vs a piston driven system?
Gas system vs piston debate; in reality a gas gun is a piston gun in which the bolt carrier group is the piston which allows fouling to enter the action. A piston gun has the piston riding farther up in a gas chamber and connected to the bolt carrier group by way of a connecting arm or linkage. This system prevents the fouling from entering the action, however you still must clean the piston/chamber or it will cease up too. So it requires a degree of maintenance also just not to the degree of a gas gun.
The advantage of the piston gun is that you can run it longer without cleaning than a comparable gas gun.
I have both types, however I clean all my firearms after shooting so it is a moot point with me.
With $1000 budget, I wouldn't get in a hurry and look for a nice used gun instead of buying new.
Good luck on your choice.
Best 308 semi-auto, in terms of reliability and accuracy = Colt 901
Ernie (xphunter) "The Un-Tactical"
SEB Coaxial Front Rest - Dealer
SP's by Mac's Gunworks, H-S Precision, Holland's, Aaron Alexander, Chris Rhodes, & Nine Run Gun
Although I wasn't looking for one, I acquired a DPMS Oracle in 308 the week before Christmas. I was in Dunham's sporting goods, buying a few presents, and noticed they had the rifle on sale for $799. I'm not a big fan of AR types, but figured that I might as well get it while it was on sale. The scope gets here tomorrow, so maybe I can give a range report, soon.
Thanks Ernie, a quick look shows that at just about the Scar17s price range, if I went that high I'd just do a Scar.
Nashcat.. looking forward to your review..
This recommendation is not from me peronsally, but from someone who has used every 308 Semi that is out there in harsh field conditions.
The real deal recommendation
Many people may not need or want that level, but if I ever get a 308 semi, I can promise you what it will be.
Ernie (xphunter) "The Un-Tactical"
SEB Coaxial Front Rest - Dealer
SP's by Mac's Gunworks, H-S Precision, Holland's, Aaron Alexander, Chris Rhodes, & Nine Run Gun
All I'm trying to say is with your requirements, I think you'd be better off saving a bit longer and getting what you really want.
Heck, if you want to build one, I'd be happy to put it together for you...
If what you really want is a SCAR-17, then please save your money til you have enough to get one. I have spent enough money on guns that I could afford "right now" instead of saving for another month or year and getting what I really wanted, and then finding out I wasn't happy with the compromise gun and getting the original one, to know that settling for the cheaper alternative is often more expensive.
As to piston vs direct gas, if I may be a jerk about things, here is my view. I will go with a proven design, regardless of which type it is, over the latest greatest innovation because I rabidly refuse to pay someone for the privilege of paying them to do their R&D for them. In the case of a semi-auto fighting rifle, I have almost an obsession with the FAL over everything else, so will vote piston, BUT, if you tell me I have to use an AR, I will go with direct gas every time. My reasoning being that the gas AR has had almost 50 YEARS of R&&D and field testing done to it, so I know what the strengths and weaknesses are, and how to fix/avoid them. But if given a new design that has only been out a few months or even just a few years, how much do you really KNOW for a fact, vs knowing what should be, or in some cases, what the advertisements say?
Yes, I'm a dinosaur, and I will play with play toys at the range, but when the price of a mistake is paid in my blood or the blood of my loved ones, I will go with the old and proven system every single time.
Good advice here (as always) and maybe I just need to put this on the back burner for a bit... save my pennies a little longer. I don't HAVE to have this right now and if I wait I can get what I really want.
Good point, lonegun, about a proven design. Although I think the Scar has been around about 10 years or so and it has proven itself I do believe.And I do love all the features it has.
Mike thanks for the offer to build me one, there is no doubt in my mind that you would do a great job. The idea of building one just hits me strange, I know that's how its done these days.. all the best parts put together, but it still seems odd to me. Then what do you have.. not a great Colt, or great S&W, or great FN.. just a lot of parts.. hard for me to grasp. And then whats the value of it after spending all that money? Just hard to convince my old head I guess.
Now if someone buys my 500S$W, I'll be set to go.
I'm not trying to talk you into building one. What you have when your done is EXACTLY what YOU want. Not what some other company thinks you want. Not whatever parts they had left over, you have the rifle of your dreams. As long as you select quality parts, when your finished you have a quality build. The value I'd in the eye of the beholder. If you've looked at used AR15s lately, you'll see even the high end guns aren't bringing much, the market I'd flooded. One caveat of building, it is the rifle you built so if it sux or isn't accurate, you didn't do your homework.
One problem with building or buying, as cool aftermarket stuff comes out I find myself continuing to upgrade all my AR15s to the newest configuration. It just never seems to end.
We may discuss this down the road Mike.. Thanks.
Tell you what, Mike convinced that going with a custom build was the way to go....He was right
Well tell me about it!
I bought the Sig 716 pro patrol. I love it shoots great put a Jerry Miculek brake on it and it does everything I need it to do. Al
My hairs turnin White
My necks always been Red
My collar is still Blue
Yes you can say I have always been Red White and Blue
NRA Life Member
A man can never have to much red wine to many good books or to much ammunition Rudyard Kipling
Well, I finally got a scope mounted and took the DPMS Oracle to the range. The scope is a Vortex Viper 6.5-20 x 44, 30mm tube, that I picked up from Midway during a recent sale. I loaded up some 165 gr blem bullets that I sitting around, over a mid load of Varget, and off I went.
I didn't check the trigger before I went to the range, which caused me to think that the safety was broken. Pulled and pulled at the trigger, with no boom. Finally, I mustered up the energy to get the hammer to drop. It probably wasn't THAT bad, but it was at least a 10# pull. I was a little disappointed in the trigger, but since I had planned on replacing it anyway, I decided to go ahead and see what it could do. Using a bipod, with rear bags, the best I could do was 2 to 3" groups. I could see the crosshairs move as I struggled with the trigger. The weapon functioned perfectly through 50 rounds.
It was a great day, around 50 degrees with a slight wind, and I had the entire rifle area to myself. The range is the Eagle Eye Shooting Complex in Summertown, TN. Plenty of covered benches and target stands, out to 500 yards.
Before I left the range, I pulled out the Rem 700 in 308 and checked the scope. At least it's grouping better than the AR.
The ALG ACT trigger runs around $70 and is like 4.5 pounds. It's also single stage, very nice especially for the money.
Looks like it might be a really great shooter. It was in the teens here today, no range time for me. Glad you got out.
I personally enjoy the M110 variants. While serving I had time to do some weekend work with this machine and had learned to appreciate it. I have managed to build my own but more advanced and a little heavier than my military variation. I used a PRS stock instead of the A2 and of course...I'm in COmmifornia, so no suppressor, but I am ok with the 20" barrel and heft of mine. I am not throwing this one over my shoulder for a hike.
Well, I Had someone buy one of my 500's, which gave me the rest of the funding I needed.. Ordered a new Scar 17s off Gunbroker yesterday! I'm so excited..
(kind of blew my budget though)This message has been edited. Last edited by: hunt4570,
Need me to shoot it for ya?
I've never had the opportunity to look at any atn, worth the $? "Day/night", it has night vision?
The jury is still out on this Mike. Seems ok, has lots of features although today was my first real test on it. It does have digital night vision on it which works very well, not like some of those old gen 1+2 night vision set ups. Seems clear and you can tell what you are looking at. it switches from day to night vision with just a push of a button.
Having a little trouble in day vision mode getting a real crisp picture.But again, its day one,, and just like these new smart phones there is a learning curve to it.
Was able to zero it at 100 yards with some pretty good groups right around MOA.
You can take pics with it, videos even. I've not tried that yet but seen some other peoples that were pretty cool.
Its even got GPS and WIFI in it, with an app someone else with a smart phone can watch what you are seeing in real time.
So it has some nice features but only time will tell if it works as I would like it.
Got it at Christmas time for $403 shipped..
Hi Cisco.. you get up here to South Carolina and you can shoot it, not a problem!
i have a dpms ar10 with the stainless bull barrel and it shoots one ragged hole off bench with 46 grains varget and 150 nosler ballistic tip
And i'll bet it cost a bit more that $1k. Their cheap models are at that price range...
Ok, quick update on this, been out to my range twice now with it.
Newfangled electronic digital scope.. like a smart phone has a bit of a learning curve to it. Not used to looking through a camera on top of my rifles which is what this is. Having a bit of an issue getting a crisp sight picture, kind of grainy, and trying to aim at a 3/4" orange dot that's grainy at 100 yards is throwing me off. Actually the first time out I couldn't even see that dot, just centered the reticle in the 8" round target.
The scope has a one shot zero system where you shoot one shot, then center the reticle, then move the reticle to point of impact while the scope leaves a marker at your original aim point, works pretty well if you can see that original bullet hole which was the problem.
Ok, here are some targets. Look at the 3 shot groups, outer holes were earlier while I was trying to figure this thing out and didn't cover them before my final groups.
PPU FMJ 147gr..
Winchester SuperX 150 gr PP
And Federal Premium 168gr Match
Day two, a little windy but I improved the focus on the scope..
Federal premium 168 gr match
Winchester SX 150 gr.. not sure why the vertical stringing on this one???
And the Cheap PPU 147 gr.. gun seems to like this, which is nice cause its cheap. Need to get a set of dies and replicate this.
So I'm pleased so far, the gun will outshoot the scope any day of the week however.. more testing and tweaking is needed!!
Ok, being unable to get a crisp sight picture out of the ATN scope, and seeing as it was a impulse buy at a great price... I sold it for what I paid for it, no loss thank God!!
I have a friend that works at Trijicon and offered to set me up at a substantial discount, so I just ordered a TR22G: AccuPoint® 2.5-10x56 Riflescope w/ BAC, Green Triangle Post Reticle, 30mm Tube
My old eyes need as much light as I can get to them hence the 56mm objective..
Now the waiting begins again!
I've got several Trijicon optics and like them a lot. I've been told their customer service isn't Leupold and that I should keep that in mind if i ever have problems. To date, knocking on wood, I've not had a single issue. I think their at least as bright as Leupold vx3s and they should be as tough, or tougher, than the mk4.
Looking forward to your review of the new scope.
I will do that, give a review. I'm excited about this scope, and well the whole set up. This scope is a few steps up from what I'm used to... Mostly mid range Nikons, low end Leupolds, and run of the mill Burris, Simmons etc. So I'm stepping into new territory with this guy. Should be fun!!
I'd look for a used FAL. When my eyes were younger - ringing the 600yd gong was done with mundane regularity. It "ffels" lighter in my hands than a DPMS LR, but I've never put both on a scale. A pre '86 FAL will be spendy, but a cobbled together parts gun should be in the $1000- $1200 range depending on your area. My parts gun have parts from 3 continents on it and it shoots/functions fine.
If you ever want to move away from the 308 chambering the DPMS LR is the way to go.
Welcome Dirty.. If you look farther up you will se I bought a 308 a while ago, same "family" as the FAL.. I picked up a Scar 17s..
Great gun although its pretty heavy, topped it with a Trijicon . Been super busy this year with my house rebuild so I've
not played with it anywhere near enough!!!
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