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posted
Love this. Amazing how much misinformation there is out there. 2 online articles with opposing math--

(Incorrect)-- https://www.handgunsmag.com/ed...-your-handgun/137708

(Correct)-- https://www.shootingillustrate...-at-rifle-distances/


Steve
 
Posts: 2632 | Location: Pueblo, CO USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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One has to be really careful and not to take everything for granted. There are a lot of "experts" on the internet.
 
Posts: 254 | Location: NW Ohio | Registered: June 05, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Yep--seen a bunch of MI regarding "subtension" over the years.


Steve
 
Posts: 2632 | Location: Pueblo, CO USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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For any who may be interested if they wish to try it, the math presented in the correct article is based on the Elmer Keith system where the target is placed on top of the front sight, if you wish to line up all four points (eye to rear sight to front sight mark to target the only thing that changes in the calculation is the sight radius then becomes front sight to rear sight (not to eye). Windage would be front sight to eye.

Rangefinding can also be accomplished with some relative amount of accuracy by applying the most basic form of the mil-ranging formula and using a "subtension unit" (2nd and 3rd variables in the equation) based on the front sight measurement and front sight to eye measurement.


Steve
 
Posts: 2632 | Location: Pueblo, CO USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post


070921



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quote:
Originally posted by sscoyote:
For any who may be interested if they wish to try it, the math presented in the correct article is based on the Elmer Keith system where the target is placed on top of the front sight, if you wish to line up all four points (eye to rear sight to front sight mark to target the only thing that changes in the calculation is the sight radius then becomes front sight to rear sight (not to eye). Windage would be front sight to eye.

Rangefinding can also be accomplished with some relative amount of accuracy by applying the most basic form of the mil-ranging formula and using a "subtension unit" (2nd and 3rd variables in the equation) based on the front sight measurement and front sight to eye measurement.


I found the math to only get me close...

I just use a really large steel target at the given range to figure out the sight hold. Then mark the sight and machine a grove and use a color fill.


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Posts: 3949 | Location: Newcastle, WY | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post


070921



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Another note:

Distance from eye to sight generally changes in different field shooting positions.


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Posts: 3949 | Location: Newcastle, WY | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I've only used the math for a 1377 air pistol (400 fps 10 gr. pellet), and was dead-on to 80 yds (80 MOA, i.e. full front sight above rear sight) using Chairgun ballistic program calcs, and a Ruger Mk3 to 225 yds--with mom shooting. Very close to Dead-on for calcs.


Steve
 
Posts: 2632 | Location: Pueblo, CO USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Interesting to have a discussion about front sight long-range reference since it's extremely rarely discussed. Never heard of windage ever discussed. Last week went out pd shooting and used the 1377 at 40 yds. to try and shoot a pebble off a hillside with a 10 mph full value wind Called for 10 MOA windage (20-yd zero top of front sight even with top of rear sight)--(front sight is 12 MOA wide from sitting position). Aimed ~ 2-6 MOA units (1/2 front sight width) into wind and hit the pebble 1st shot--that was extremely rewarding--just as much so as the pd shoot itself.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sscoyote,


Steve
 
Posts: 2632 | Location: Pueblo, CO USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Roger Clouser used his iron-sighted pistols to shoot out to ranges of 1000 yds. Ed Wosika out of CA had a 12 pg. article on it and detailed some of the math in his article.


Steve
 
Posts: 2632 | Location: Pueblo, CO USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Rangefinding with front sight on an airgun pistol in the PI just once--but it was very close to lasered at 40 yds.


Steve
 
Posts: 2632 | Location: Pueblo, CO USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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To demonstrate the misinformation there was a youtube where the guy detailed the math behind rangefinding with a military gun and he was using front sight to rear sight for his calcs--wrong it's front sight to eye. But eye is so close to rear sight that the math will be "close", and is easily mistaken. Many swear that it's all based on the sight radius, but it's not all based on it.


Steve
 
Posts: 2632 | Location: Pueblo, CO USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I would love to see that article.
 
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Sorry just saw this sir--send me your address and I'll send you a copy of it. IMO the best article ever published on the subject.


Steve
 
Posts: 2632 | Location: Pueblo, CO USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Very interesting reading,thanks Steve.
Matt


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Posts: 621 | Location: Upstate South Carolina  | Registered: March 22, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post


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Hadn't seen this till now...found it very interesting.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by sscoyote:
Love this. Amazing how much misinformation there is out there. 2 online articles with opposing math--

(Incorrect)-- https://www.handgunsmag.com/ed...-your-handgun/137708

(Correct)-- https://www.shootingillustrate...-at-rifle-distances/


Wow. That Shooting Illustrated article is wild. I've never even thought about long range shooting with a Glock. 300 yards with a Glock sounds unreal. I practice at 10-15 yards. To hit anything at 600 yards, well heck, I'd just be happy to be a spectator and see someone do that successfully. Really eye opening. Thanks for posting.
 
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sorry haven't been here in awhile. Yessir can't believe the things i've been able to accomplish using the math (with my 1377 airpistol). Pretty amazing really. Unfortunately I can't understand the math where the sight radius is front sight to eye when the target is placed on top of the front sight. I know what it is but hard to visualize it. Must have something to do with introducing another angle into the equation.

The most fun i've had with it is windage applications along with elevation. Weird to have the front sight up and left or right of the rear notch. Absolutely some of the most fascinating shooting I've ever done.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sscoyote,


Steve
 
Posts: 2632 | Location: Pueblo, CO USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Trucker if you still want a copy of that article call me 7193209306


Steve
 
Posts: 2632 | Location: Pueblo, CO USA | Registered: October 31, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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