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posted
I’ve been shooting TC Contenders for almost 25 years now, and due to some unfortunate circumstances and idiocy on my part I have irreparably damage my sole G2 frame. With current prices on frames in general I am contemplating a change to a bolt pistol.

I have discovered the Kauger Arms and had some correspondence with them recently about getting a Black Widow from them, I like the design, the look and most of maybe, the people behind the company, they have been super helpful and accommodating with my ignorant questions.

I have a couple questions for you guys that have been doing this longer than me:

1: what am I giving up going bolt pistol vs contender? I know quick barrel changes is one, but I’m over that now for the most part, but what am I not considering that I’m giving up?

2: I’m fairly heavily invested in 30 cal stuff and am considering having the black widow made in 308 win for general versatility, I do not plan nor can I afford multiples of these firearms, I will only have one for the time being. That being said am I thinking right in the versatility of the 308 win vs the 6.5 creed or 6.5x47L? I have to buy dies and brass for any of them so that’s not a current concern. As far as my uses, I’m in Kentucky and hunt this area and maybe the Ozarks and/or southeast in the future. I do put in for the Ky Elk draw every year but that’s a pipe dream hope. I’m looking for something to take whitetail, hogs, predators etc out to a max of 300 yards, also looking for something that is kind of my limited component supplies. I’ve been shooting the 30-30 AI a long time so something in the 35-45 gr powder range is nice.
 
Posts: 198 | Location: W. KY | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Like you I have been shooting Contenders for over 30 years. My favorite in the Contenders has been the 7-30 Waters for deer and 6mm JDJ for groundhogs. I have been wanting a bolt action pistol in 7mm-08 for a long time.
You could get a 6.5x47 and stay at the contender levels but when going to a bolt action I would look at a 6.5x284 or the 284 itself. Just my input on your current situation. Trying to decide on a single caliber is a very hard decision. Guess that's why I have 3 frames and 20 barrels.
I think the good old 308 win would be a good choice for your part of the country and the game you mentioned.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kylongrifle,
 
Posts: 329 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: May 19, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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The biggest disadvantage is size. A bolt pistol is much bigger than a Contender. I haven't found a convenient way to carry a bolt action pistol, nor to shoot one any way but off a rest or bipod. Contenders do pretty well offhand.

There's a Bullberry 30-30AI on **** right now, and GB is full of both frames and full sized Contenders.

For a hunter, he biggest advantage of a bolt action pistol is trajectory and to a lesser degree power.
 
Posts: 90 | Location: TX | Registered: September 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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If you're going to bolt, you may as well go big. I have a HS .308 and a XP-6.5/.284.
Both are good deer guns. I've killed deer out to 400 with the .308, but out to 580 with the 6.5/.284 with much less bullet drop. Both will do larger animals, but I feel my 6.5 does it flatter & better than the .308.
I would not recommend the 6.5 Needmore. I've seen it fail on deer and ,even, groundhogs, and know of train wrecks with it on elk.
For me, it's just plain cool seeing 800# animals (2 kudu) drop in their tracks from my "little" 6.5/.284.
 
Posts: 1847 | Location: eastern WV | Registered: April 21, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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They make good guns. I have handled a couple.

Bolt guns are stronger and generally more accurate.

Their bolt heads can easily be changed so a switch barrel is possible on that make.

Rear grip bolt gun….that’s the only down side. You are stuck shooting from a substantial rest. Where a center grip can be shot from odd positions easier.
 
Posts: 3991 | Location: Newcastle, WY | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by Hoggin:
They make good guns. I have handled a couple.

Bolt guns are stronger and generally more accurate.

Their bolt heads can easily be changed so a switch barrel is possible on that make.

Rear grip bolt gun….that’s the only down side. You are stuck shooting from a substantial rest. Where a center grip can be shot from odd positions easier.


How would it compare to an encore with 15” heavy contour barrel in that regard? I used to use a monopod with yoke for my old encore to counter some of that when a solid rest was not easily available in the field, that or my backpack if I had something to rest it on.
 
Posts: 198 | Location: W. KY | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I believe Savage has a bolt pistol again. From the one I saw they didn’t ask any handgun hunters for input.

IMHO, the 308 is as good of a handgun cartridge as it is in a rifle.


---------------------------------
G whiz, it's a Contender or a G2, never was a G One!
 
Posts: 3020 | Location: Kansas U.S of A | Registered: November 01, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Picture of Hoggin
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quote:
Originally posted by YodieBuzz:
quote:
Originally posted by Hoggin:
They make good guns. I have handled a couple.

Bolt guns are stronger and generally more accurate.

Their bolt heads can easily be changed so a switch barrel is possible on that make.

Rear grip bolt gun….that’s the only down side. You are stuck shooting from a substantial rest. Where a center grip can be shot from odd positions easier.


How would it compare to an encore with 15” heavy contour barrel in that regard? I used to use a monopod with yoke for my old encore to counter some of that when a solid rest was not easily available in the field, that or my backpack if I had something to rest it on.


Probably in the same ballpark as a large encore pistol as far as field use.

Since they are free floated you can run a bipod or use about any rest without POI change.
 
Posts: 3991 | Location: Newcastle, WY | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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In my experience the Contender in a rimmed cartridge is easier to reload quickly. The bolt guns are usually more accurate if you are that good of a shooter.

The 6.5 Creedmore has become a fad in my opinion. I'm not saying it won't work but in some circles it is the only round that can put down a deer. 6.5 Swede has worked for a long time.

I've played with various wildcat rounds but if the action can handle it the .308 family is hard to beat.


====================

"Preach the Gospel. Even use words if you have to."
 
Posts: 1950 | Location: SW MO | Registered: November 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Thanks for all the replies folks.

Gives me lots to think on.
 
Posts: 198 | Location: W. KY | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I much prefer the center grip that is available with the XP-100 etc. It seems easier to control wobbling and to stay on target vs. the rear grip with revolvers, etc. I have used a 7-08 for decades and like it. Recently built a 308 Federal, which Ken Waters preferred over the .308 and .358.
 
Posts: 23 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: October 01, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post


030423



Picture of Sawfish
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Have you sent your G2 in for repair?


------------------------------
Good Shooting Makes Good Hunting
NRA Patron Member, FTRA Member;
Life Member SCI, NAHH, RMEF, and NSRPA; HHI Member #7108, Member CBA, NSSF

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many good books, or too much ammunition."
Rudyard Kipling
 
Posts: 3508 | Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia | Registered: March 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Picture of LoneStar
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quote:
Have you sent your G2 in for repair?


Just who would he send it to? T/C is kaput.


.

“The 30-06 is the world's most over-rated big game cartridge" - Elmer Keith
 
Posts: 976 | Location: Superstition Mountains | Registered: August 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post


LIFE



Picture of tgp
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I love my XP's but a Contender is so handy to hunt with. I'd get in touch with SSK and get on their list for the new frames coming out and keep looking for a Contender frame. Oh and go ahead and get the XP disease too!

Glenn


------------------------------
“Evil, unchecked, is the prelude to genocide. - Anonymous”
― Joel C. Rosenberg, The Auschwitz Escape


 
Posts: 3513 | Location: mississippi delta | Registered: June 30, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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REMAGE possibly.Easy to change barrels.I have a xp remage and love it.6x223 and 7-08.Do the barrel change yourself-pretty easy and simple.
 
Posts: 97 | Location: upper east tennessee | Registered: January 24, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Picture of LoneStar
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quote:
REMAGE possibly.Easy to change barrels.I have a xp remage and love it.6x223 and 7-08.Do the barrel change yourself-pretty easy and simple.


Two different bolts too I assume. As in posts above, I love my center-grip XP but the Contender is preferred for hunting on foot. With a good cross-chest holster there is no real difference between a 10” and a 14/15” barrel either, with the latter easier to hit with and giving more power. If I hunt out of a vehicle then the XP with a bipod will do great.


.

“The 30-06 is the world's most over-rated big game cartridge" - Elmer Keith
 
Posts: 976 | Location: Superstition Mountains | Registered: August 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post


020323



Picture of Ernie
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quote:
Originally posted by YodieBuzz:
I’ve been shooting TC Contenders for almost 25 years now, and due to some unfortunate circumstances and idiocy on my part I have irreparably damage my sole G2 frame. With current prices on frames in general I am contemplating a change to a bolt pistol.

I have discovered the Kauger Arms and had some correspondence with them recently about getting a Black Widow from them, I like the design, the look and most of maybe, the people behind the company, they have been super helpful and accommodating with my ignorant questions.

I have a couple questions for you guys that have been doing this longer than me:

1: what am I giving up going bolt pistol vs contender? I know quick barrel changes is one, but I’m over that now for the most part, but what am I not considering that I’m giving up?

2: I’m fairly heavily invested in 30 cal stuff and am considering having the black widow made in 308 win for general versatility, I do not plan nor can I afford multiples of these firearms, I will only have one for the time being. That being said am I thinking right in the versatility of the 308 win vs the 6.5 creed or 6.5x47L? I have to buy dies and brass for any of them so that’s not a current concern. As far as my uses, I’m in Kentucky and hunt this area and maybe the Ozarks and/or southeast in the future. I do put in for the Ky Elk draw every year but that’s a pipe dream hope. I’m looking for something to take whitetail, hogs, predators etc out to a max of 300 yards, also looking for something that is kind of my limited component supplies. I’ve been shooting the 30-30 AI a long time so something in the 35-45 gr powder range is nice.


I would ditto what Chris said.
The balance of the center-grip is more handy for field position shooting.
Having said that I have hunted with rear grips for a fair amount of animals, but I still prefer the center grip. This is my preference, not necessarily others.
I have killed mule deer, antelope, Javelina, and a Axis with the Creed line of cartridges (6mm, 25 cal, and 6.5). It is simply a specific muzzle velocities combined with bullet weights used for hunting, when using barrel lengths of 14, 15, 16, 17, or 18"
You mentioned the 6.5 Creed. Myself and my kids killed deer (Mule deer, whitetail, antelope, and the kids killed and elk apiece with 14 or 15 inch 260 Remington. My daughter's first whitetail was a buck at around 380 yards. The 260 Remington is not that much faster than the Creed.
All things being equal, speed helps you kill faster, with all other factors being the same.
Do I really like the 6.5-284? Yes! More speed.
Since, you are looking at 300 yards or under, I don't see any issue using the Creed.
6.5 Creed with 2 different bullet weights with impact velocities at 300 yards:
140 grain = 2190 fps
147 grain = 2146 fps

6.5-284 with a 140 Accubond at 300 yards = 2331 fps
At 650 yards the impact velocity is 1860 feet per second-Dan killed his cow elk this year using my 6.5-284 clone XP-100 with one shot at 680 yards.

The bullet doesn't know what cartridge it is being fired from.
Bullet choice and shot placement being of supreme importance.
I don't get wrapped up about a cartridge, I look for a performance level with a "XYZ" length barrel with the hunting bullets for that caliber.
I hope this helps in your cartridge decision making.

You can also get the Black Widow with a single-shot action (save some money since you wouldn't use bottom metal), then you could easily do both long action and short action cartridges easily.


Ernie (xphunter) "The Un-Tactical"
WY-SHOT 2022 June 20-22
 
Posts: 12167 | Location: Gillette, Wyoming | Registered: November 02, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post


020323



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For numbers sake, my rear-grip 15" Black Widow in 6.5x47 Lapua has a 300 yard impact velocity of 2094 with a 140 grain.
With the 130 grain the 300 yard impact velocity is 2158 fps


Ernie (xphunter) "The Un-Tactical"
WY-SHOT 2022 June 20-22
 
Posts: 12167 | Location: Gillette, Wyoming | Registered: November 02, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Thanks for the details guys.

I ended up a different route than I thought originally.

I have a Nosler Independence in 6.5 Creedmoor on the way to my FFL now.

This is my first bolt pistol, so for now I want something pre built so to speak, if I like it and want another, I’ll buy a donor action and build one based on my likes/dislikes of the Nosler.

Also my first creedmoor, so that will be a new adventure.

Plan to shoot 120gr class bullets for the time being, at least that what I have several boxes of coming my way.

Thanks again, will update after I get her in my hand and get some shots down range.

Now to decide on scope… Leupold vx3hd 4.5-14x40 from my 30-30ai carbine barrel that is no more, or the 3-12 Burris pistol scope I have in the drawer.
 
Posts: 198 | Location: W. KY | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post


020323



Picture of Ernie
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by YodieBuzz:
Thanks for the details guys.

I ended up a different route than I thought originally.

I have a Nosler Independence in 6.5 Creedmoor on the way to my FFL now.

This is my first bolt pistol, so for now I want something pre built so to speak, if I like it and want another, I’ll buy a donor action and build one based on my likes/dislikes of the Nosler.

Also my first creedmoor, so that will be a new adventure.

Plan to shoot 120gr class bullets for the time being, at least that what I have several boxes of coming my way.

Thanks again, will update after I get her in my hand and get some shots down range.

Now to decide on scope… Leupold vx3hd 4.5-14x40 from my 30-30ai carbine barrel that is no more, or the 3-12 Burris pistol scope I have in the drawer.


Good for you!
If you add a solid-bottomed muzzle brake, use the rifle scope for sure!


Ernie (xphunter) "The Un-Tactical"
WY-SHOT 2022 June 20-22
 
Posts: 12167 | Location: Gillette, Wyoming | Registered: November 02, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I agree with Ernie 100%, add a brake and go rifle scope. I really like those Noslers, I fondled one at a local shop but hesitated to long and it sold


Chris
 
Posts: 683 | Location: Eastern TN | Registered: February 04, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I ordered an Area419 Hellfire to have to slap on there quickly to use for now, I plan on having the gun re-coated in a different color at some point, I’ll have a proper brake fitted at that time.
 
Posts: 198 | Location: W. KY | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ernie:
quote:
Originally posted by YodieBuzz:
Thanks for the details guys.

I ended up a different route than I thought originally.

I have a Nosler Independence in 6.5 Creedmoor on the way to my FFL now.

This is my first bolt pistol, so for now I want something pre built so to speak, if I like it and want another, I’ll buy a donor action and build one based on my likes/dislikes of the Nosler.

Also my first creedmoor, so that will be a new adventure.

Plan to shoot 120gr class bullets for the time being, at least that what I have several boxes of coming my way.

Thanks again, will update after I get her in my hand and get some shots down range.

Now to decide on scope… Leupold vx3hd 4.5-14x40 from my 30-30ai carbine barrel that is no more, or the 3-12 Burris pistol scope I have in the drawer.


Good for you!
If you add a solid-bottomed muzzle brake, use the rifle scope for sure!


Is the solid bottom recommendation due for dust kick up reduction, or do they give better recoil reduction?
 
Posts: 198 | Location: W. KY | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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dust
 
Posts: 2086 | Location: Kasson MN | Registered: August 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post


020323



Picture of Ernie
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Better recoil reduction as well, especially with the better brakes


Ernie (xphunter) "The Un-Tactical"
WY-SHOT 2022 June 20-22
 
Posts: 12167 | Location: Gillette, Wyoming | Registered: November 02, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Made made you go with the Nosler over the Kauger? I actually have a Kauger action that was built into a 20" .308 by Nine Run Gun, still have yet too actually shoot the rifle.
 
Posts: 64 | Location: Middle GA | Registered: October 16, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Biggest reason was center grip vs rear grip based on the recommendations above.
 
Posts: 198 | Location: W. KY | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Well gents, all I can say after todays maiden range voyage…. Why did I not do this sooner!

This Nosler 48 in 6.5 Creedmoor is SWEET!

First 3 shots out of the fresh barrel went into a less than 1” group, in fact everything I shot today went less (some well less) than 1” at 100yds.

Hornady 123Gr SST and Winchester StaBall6.5 make a great combo.

7 different charge weights of StaBall6.5 behind the 123 SST all grouped great, but a couple in the middle were outstanding. 2450-2600fps, I think based on load info and lack of pressure signs I can go to 2700 if I wanted to push the envelope.

It also shot factory Nosler 120 E-Tip superbly.

But the gun…. I LOVE this thing, with the solid bottom brake that was suggested recoil is minimal, trigger pull is great, fell in love with shooting all over again.


The only negative experience from this morning was when I tried my Leupold 4.5-14 vx3hd… it didn’t bite, and I’d have to try very hard to get it to, but I can’t convince my brain of that, with the rifle scope I instantaneously developed a wicked flinch that I couldn’t easily over come. Put the Burris 3-12 back on and I was back to normal. Maybe someday I’ll try again, but for now it’s Pistol scope for me.

Thanks again for all the good info folks, I still love my Contenders, but a bit less now that I’ve shot this Nosler. Can’t wait for fall to get it into the field.
 
Posts: 198 | Location: W. KY | Registered: October 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post


020323



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Good for you!


Ernie (xphunter) "The Un-Tactical"
WY-SHOT 2022 June 20-22
 
Posts: 12167 | Location: Gillette, Wyoming | Registered: November 02, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Great pistol, I love my Contenders too, but everyone needs at least one bolt gun, right Ernie? Enjoy the new gun.i have never tried a pistol with a break and a rifle scope, would be nice to some day.
 
Posts: 60 | Location: Az | Registered: January 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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i used to have many contenders and sold them all off and went to bolt guns and never looked back. much more accurate and worth more money when selling times come.
 
Posts: 1149 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: August 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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